Thursday, August 16, 2007

Religion

I've been having a lot of interesting discussions about religion recently, and this is a recent message that I sent to someone. I think I'm somewhere between being an agnostic, a deist, and a gnostic christian. Just thought I'd post it and hopefully see some comments:

Ok, here are my religious views....and I'll warn you that they've changed and shifted based on events in my life....and they'll probably change again. I'm agnostic because I think that most religion is guess work. You see signs, you get signals, you hear the voice of something spiritual, and then you do your best to interpret those messages. The reason why there are so many different religions, divisions amongst the religions, and divisions in those divisions, is that everyone interprets these messages in a different way. Just try having a group of people write down their descriptions of the exact same event and notice how differently they remember it.
So, God, who is unknowable, sends messages to us. They might be misunderstood, but the really important messages come in huge events, from people that can't be ignored. An angel is considered a messenger...but the word "angel" actually means "message." So angels are themselves messages. Jesus was a message to humanity..."This is how you should live your life." "Love is more important than all of these rules and regulations." Love to the point where you would sacrifice yourself to save other people. And if you look at the heart of most religions, the golden rule is at the center...although many religious fanatics like to ignore it....they think it's too obvious to pay attention to, saying "Well, of course you should love thy neighbor, but what about gays in the military?" But, loving your neighbor is the same as saying "love everyone." That's a lot more difficult than it sounds. If more churches focused on themselves and asked "am I doing my best to love everyone?" rather than saying "are THEY following the rules?!" our world would be in much better shape. As soon as Jesus died, everyone split into different factions.....that's the whole reason why Saul/Paul had to write so many letters....to try to unify the church. They were still arguing over whether you had to be a Jew....or if you had to be circumsized.
I think that there have been other messengers from God....Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., and countless others that we may never hear about....because they aren't out seeking attention. I think it's hard enough to focus on loving thy neighbor. So, my plans for eternity are to believe in the power of love and the potential for good in other human beings. That's my faith. That, and I believe that God can figure out where to put me after I die. I hope : ) Whether it's heaven, hell, or just a nice beach with internet access...

I love talking about this stuff. I almost went to get a master's in religious studies instead of library science...

7 comments:

Jenn said...

Touchy subject. I give thee muchos kudos for going there, and for having such a smart philosophy.

tattooedg33k said...

makes me think of something patton oswalt wrote in his blog.

"I'm a firm believer that, when you die, you go where you think you ought to go (thanks, Neil Gaiman!) Thus, if you're an atheist, you float away in a mindless pool of warm logic. If you're a Buddhist, you experience the great Tao. If you're Flava Flav, you smoke a million-mile long blunt that somehow fellates you and keeps having babies."

Jenn said...

I. heart. Flava Flav. Forever.

Deidre said...

I have recently been told when it comes to religion and politics you're better off "not to go there". For the most part I would take that sound advice. But when it comes to religion I have found myself almost always " Going there". For most people I've seen that because something has not happened to them it's easy for them to dismiss things that have happened to others. But I guarantee that if you set your heart into fully seeking Jesus diligently you will find the truth of the matter is that He Is REAL!! and His word is true. It's easy NOT to believe. It's easier to resist and turn away than to Follow and give up all. Yes, there are several churches that have diffrent teachings but the one important thing to know if nothing else is that " you must be born again." You must believe that God is real and you Must accept him as Lord in YOUR life" And you say a group of people interpret a happening diffrently. Did you stop to think of how God is a " PERSONAL God?" What might be a huge explanation or turn of event to me might be a passive thing to you. God deals with us as individuals. In the old testament he delt with groups.There was no diffrent interpretation back then. God is VERY KNOWABLE and there is no confusion in Him if you are earnest in wanting to know .God knows what you'll truly do with the knowledge he gives you.
Anyone ready for a long explanation How I know God and his son are real? Great!

When I was about 5 years old during an Easter egg hunt I raced a boy to the window where a plastic egg set. I climbed up into the window to get the egg and as I stood up and looked outside there stood Jesus under a tree. I looked into his eyes and he into mine. He looked through my eyes and strait into my heart. I felt immediate peace. What does a child of five have not to feel at peace about? But there was peace. I knew at the time while he looked into my eyes that he was looking at my life from beginning to end. He was looking at everything that would happen to me and everyone I would ever come into contact with in my life. I stood transfixed there for just a few moments and then went back to the hunt as if nothing ever happened. It was about a month later when I woke up early as I always did to sneak downstairs (it was a game I played with my dad) I was on the third step of our stairs going to the front room when a voice spoke to me and told me to go back to my room. I new it was Jesus I never questioned it just turned back around and went to my room. I no longer got to the door of my bedroom when I heard my dads footsteps starting to go downstairs. I listened as he went just a few more steps than I did and stopped. He immediately turned and ran back up the stairs yelling for everyone to get up the house was on fire. The whole downstairs front room was on fire.( our only escape) We had to cross over into my parents bedroom which was over the front room ) to get out onto the roof over the front porch. I've often questioned why he told me to go back to my room. I believe I could have warned everyone just the same but maybe time was of the essence. Who knows but God does all things well! I often question why he revealed himself unto me during the Easter egg hunt. I jokingly tell myself " He needed to take a closer look" LOL Whatever his reasons for doing whatever he did It's part of the reason I'm here on this blog today. This is only the beginning of the journey that would happen to me in my 39 years so far with the Lord. And yes because there are skeptics there are thousands of things people can say to explain it away. But God is real. The Bible is true and one day every person will come to see the truth either in this life or by the next. God gives us the privileg of choice unlike the Angels he created. I'll probably get a lot of crude comments back and that's fine. I'm ready for it but God is the REAL deal!!

When I got saved I learned that it is a Christians duty to go into all the world and preach the gospel,and in Deuteronomy 6:7 says concerning the word of God-
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I believe God is faithful to pass by our way at least once and offer us the gift of Salvation.

As for tattooedg33k I like your since of humor..... Love the picture!!

Jenn said...

Cindy,

I appreciate your comments, but to be honest, I quit reading them towards the end, because I choose not to be preached at.

Yes, I am an atheist. That does not mean I have a lack of faith or morals or love for my fellow man. As a matter of fact, I strive to strengthen those qualities on a daily basis.

Because I do not believe in your god, or any god, for that matter, I find peace and harmony in myself. It's something I've struggled with for a long time, trust me. I didn't develop this religion of mine overnight.

But, most people who know me well would tell you I'm a very peaceful, love-and-harmony-promoting kinda gal. Somewhat of a modern-day hippie, I suppose. I'm not a bad person, I'm more than satisfied with the life I lead, and I do whatever I can to contribute to the world around me.

But I don't believe in Christ. If you want to know my opinions on the bible, you can email me at jennslone@gmail.com, and I'll be more than happy to share them with you.

I'm glad to see your views on religion. It is something I have been expounding on lately, and I thoroughly appreciate anyone who can intelligently converse about religion without getting confrontational!

Take care.

Nick said...

I understand your zeal Cindy...if I had seen the things you say you've seen, I might believe in a similar way.

I have seen things that I can't explain. Those things, however, have no meaning to me in a spiritual sense, and seem rather random. I think I've seen a ghost, but not the holy ghost. I see God in the people around me, not in a distant heaven. To me, if there is a God, he or she is everything. The natural world, including science is him. Pain, misery, suffering, joy, and peace are all him. For an all-powerful God to exist, he has to allow everything, the good and the bad. Moreover, he wouldn't be able to intervene in a physical sense, only in a way that eases the lonliness and moral ambiguity that can plague us as human beings. God would be our conscience, and therefore a VERY personal God.

In addition, the reason why quoting Bible verse has no effect on me, and many people that believe like me...is because I don't believe that the Bible is the inspired word of god. In addition, I definitely don't believe it is all literally true. Much of it has symbolic value for teaching us how to live our lives, especially the words of Jesus. But I don't believe that Jesus' words are recorded verbatim, exactly as he spoke them.

There WERE different interpretations of the old testament and different denominations even at that time. There were the Saducees, the Pharisees, and many other ees ; )

A professor of mine once told me that the phrase "Historical Fiction" was redundant. All history is a form of fiction. The Gospels, for example, weren't written by the disciples. Several different traditions emerged from those that witnessed Jesus' life first hand. These ORAL tradions were passed down through a couple of generations through families and the different religious groups that popped up after Jesus was crucified. This is why the New Testament was written in Greek. Eventually, those that were educated (those who learned Greek) began to write down the oral histories that were being passed on. This is why some of the Gospels resemble each other, while others have significant differences....especially John, my favorite, because it was produced by a radically different group of early Christians. Other forms of Christianity, like gnosticism, were stomped out because they contradicted the rest of the groups too much. The books that were cannonized into our current Bible, made it in because they didn't contradict each other as much as some books. The early catholic church stomped out all other versions of christianity in this way, by limiting what the common people were allowed to read in the Bible. The books were given the names of disciples because it gave them more credibility.

I know that was a long rant, but those are just some of the reasons why I told consider the bible to be an authoritative text to quote as support in religious arguments. In addition, most of the new testament was heavily influenced by greek philosophy, especially everything written by Saul/Paul. Philosophy and Religion are among the tools that God (if he exists) gave human beings for interpreting the world around us. Science is another one of those ways.

Religious and miraculous explanations for things began to decline in the exact same proportion to the rise of science in Western culture. No one says that a car runs on magic...but if you didn't know scientifically how it worked, you might.

I simply believe that whatever the status of God's existence, human beings are responsible for whatever we do with this world. Prayer is great, but it don't do the dishes...(although I tried it when I was a kid)

Jenn said...

Man, I wish prayer did do the dishes. I'd be on my knees all the time!